Re: [-empyre-] Forward from Eddo

On 5 Jul 2004, at 6:24 PM, eddo wrote:

Jeff - regarding the open ended game design problem

I think its in Huizinga somewhere defining play as something that occurs
between fixed boundaries - ie rules - this definition carries very well to
ground the difference between games and open ended "virtual" worlds (some
MUDs, MOOs, Activeworlds, VRML spaces ...etc..)

hmmmmmmm I need to go back and re-read some materials about games and play... I'm not sure about thinking of them as being the same thing

[...] I felt I was performing in public and my
audience was deeply engaged in the conventions of the world - allowing any
"Subversive" actions to operate as subversive by going against the game norms.

so there is a way something to "push against" is needed? I like this idea

- doing this in MUDs or any open-ended world simply would not have that
psychological affect for me.

interesting... so the virtual-space norms and mores which arise out of the longer-term interactional patterns of the people who come back over and over are insufficient?

 I think in MMOs its really all about agency(vs
the game creators and vs the other players) and maintaining a sense of

would you be willing to speak to this some more? offline would be okay if others on the list aren't interested in this issue... I agree that issues of agency permeate the interactional patterns in multi-user spaces and would like to here more of your thoughts

I wrote some about this in a paper some time ago - its at [...]

thanks I'll take a look


Jeff Sonstein, Assistant Professor
Department of Information Technology
Rochester Institute of Technology
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